An informal conversation with Anna Hazare on Lokpal Bill

Glad to share a transcript of the informal conversation with Shri Anna Hazare on Pune-Delhi flight on Fri 15th. Ofcourse, the entire conversation was in Marathi, but am putting it here in English to include my non-Marathi friends into the flow.
Me: Anna, my name is Atul Kherde, and I would like to talk to you, can I sit with you.
Anna: Of course, go ahead.
Me: This is about the Lokpal Bill and frankly, I have not studied it to any great extent. So I would like to know some basics which an ordinary layman would want to know.
Anna: Kahi harkat nahi, (no problem, please go ahead)
Me: What is the nature of this Lokpal institution? What is the need for it since we already have a Judiciary which can act against errant public officials.
Anna: We have a lot of agencies whose job is to ensure that the govt officials work fairly and transperantly. CVC, CBI, etc are supposed to question / investigate the govt and take action if required through the Judicial channel. But they are under the direct control of the same govt which they are suppposed to monitor! One major tactic of corruption in the govt is delaying the work of ordinary citizens. So, with this Lokpal, people would be able to question the delays (non-performance) of govt officials.
Me: So, would it be right to say that "the MONITOR function of the govt work will be entrusted to the Lokpal"?
Anna: Yes. See, it will not be a parallel government. It will not replace the judiciary. The normal functioning of the executive will continue as it currently is. Only the monitoring and corrective action function will come to the Lokpal. Me: Will the Lokpal have any teeth? i.e. Can the Lokpal arrest people? Anna: The Lokpal will make inquiries and impose penalties. One major feature of this system is that the penalties will be recovered from the salaries of the erring officials. That will make the govt machinery more responsive to the needs of the ordinary citizens. Why should the entire nation pay for the mistakes of a few corrupt people!! Let us make THOSE PEOPLE pay!
Me: Where is the Lokpal vis-a-vis the Judiciary?
Anna: People will be able to visit Lokpal to seek help against non-performance of the govt machinery. The Lokpal will fix the accountability and time within which the citizen's pending issues have to be resolved. Lokpal will also impose penalties on the concerned officers if required. The Judiciary has a much wider scope.
Me: Selecting the right 'good' people seems to be a cornerstone here. But geniune goodness cannot come from a system. Goodness can come only from good people having individual merit. How many Annas and Kiran Bedis are there? Very few. So, I would like to understand how a system will produce goodness.
Anna: Good. So, we need a system of identifying good people, and that will come only from transperancy. Nominations will be invited and all those who are nominated will go through certian known filters like asset declaration, history, accusations, etc. The entire deliberations of the committee for selecting and identifying these 'good people' will be broadcast live, let the nation see it. It is easy to do favouritism in private, but if the discussions are on live broadcast, nobody will dare to support falsehoods. The real value addition of this Lokpal bill will come from identifying people of impeccable credentials, individual merit and spotless history. The whole process will take time but we have to make a start.
Me: On a more personal note: Anna, when we look at other people of your age we are stupefied..! What drives you? What is your motivation?
Anna: I was in the 1965 war, at Khemakaran where I lost most of my fellow-soilders. I too was hit by shrapnel, (showed the mark on his forehead) and could have died. That was a shock for me.. I thought there must be some purpose to my life. At one point, I was about to commit suicide, but on New Delhi railway station, I came across books by Swami Vivekanand and I realized the purpose of life is to serve others. Neither we bring anything with us when we are born, nor we carry anythign with us after death. But everyone is still searching, searching for something. We find people are searching for 'anand' (joy) in things. But THINGS will never give you stable joy. Costly crockery gives joy, but when it breaks it also brings sorrow. So, we should strive to find sthayi (stable) joy, which can come only by serving others. As the Gita says, "Karmannye waadhika raaste...", working without expectations will give joy. So, I decided not to marry because that would have given me chintas (minor worries). So I did not marry, but still have done prapanch! Ralegan Siddhi is my prapanch, but it is not a small (personal) prapanch but a big prapanch because it belongs to everybody and has contributions from everybody.
Me: Anna it was a great opportunity for me to get these inputs first hand..! I don't even want to say "thank you", this is far greater than what words can capture. One last question. If an ordinary citizen like me wants to contribute in your movement, what should s/he do? How do we get involved in the process?
Anna: See, the real strength of this country is the young population. Our youth is uncomparable. So, if anyone wants to contribute you can visit www.annahazare.org and start from there. Do send us an email or letter, and participate in the movement.
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It sure was a great experience meeting Anna, he is so down-to-earth and humble, that it is impossible to believe that this man has moved the entire nation..! There were a lot of other things about individual development, value-education, etc., which he shared, but to keep the focus on Lokpal, I have not included them here. Maybe another day..!